Thank you! I was fairly sure it was, but do not trust my memory on dates or numbers generally. But I remember how superb a talk he gave, not only for the Tolkien material but for the issue of how great a problem these fake quotes are (although why I should have been surprised at many someones being wrong on the internet, I do not know!).
LOL Robin I read that article, was tripped up by the mis-attribution, and immediately thought of you, and how you've talked about the problem of students (especially) attributing to Tolkien the paraphrases/bastardizations of Jackson et al.!
But it does emphasize how much these "think tanks" are only pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-academic ... not that people on the left can't be as bad, holy moly don't get real historians & academics started about David Graeber ...
It is an ongoing problem (not sure it's more prevalent on the right vs. the left), and yep students, but also I remember a number of periodical reviews about Jackson's films talking about the racism in Tolkien (which isn't exactly wrong, but was based entirely on evidence from the films as if they were some literal version of the book). It is frustrating!
And also yeah, bad/sloppy/lazy scholarship happens on the left as well (had not heard about David Graeber before!).
Robin, I remember it as if it had been yesterday - you coming up to me after the talk in that hotel room in B'ham and asking me when will I publish this because you found it so incredibly interesting.
Thank you very much for sharing this, it gives me great pleasure and makes me a little proud to see my work mentioned with your amazing writings!
Well that reminds me -- are you going to publish? I mean, I was impressed as heck by the series you have on your blog, and more and more I am a fan of publishing scholarly work online for easier access, but it might be nice to pull it all together (you could publish as an article in the Journal of Tolkien Research, rather than as a peer-reviewed piece).
It also makes it easier to attribute and acknowledge the incredible work that people do!
I have written so much stuff in recent years but I have lost all self-confidence in publishing with a decent publication like JTR, for example. I simply do not believe I have it in me right now...
The last few years have been so incredibly hard for so many of us -- taking a break or at least not taking on any more projects can be a good thing! If you ever feel you want to develop something (and JTR not only publishes the peer-reviewed stuff, but also conference presentations and editor-reviewed articles), and I can help in any way, let me know. Until then I'll just keep recommending your work!
I recently read the "manifesto" of someone with ties to the Claremont Institute, a man from Indiana who used to own a shampoo company and who has several "compounds" around the US (3 in Moscow, ID, apparently). Both the Guardian and Raw Story have recently published short articles about him. He frames himself as a warlord.
His manifesto (which I won't link to but I can email you the name if you want to pursue an archive link) essentially lays out ideas for a society formed where the current US is after the US has "collapsed" (his call for militarized bunkers and open warfare seems to suggest he and his group are the ones who will be doing the "collapsing"). It includes all the usual suspects: authoritarianism, anti-Enlightenment, anti-equality, strict gender roles, solid hierarchy, a ruling class, capital punishment and corporal punishment, preferential treatment for Christians, etc..
What I found most interesting though and the reason I am mentioning it here is because it also twice draws words or phrases from Tolkien. Once it references the Shire and in another place is a reference to the world being "broken and remade" (referring to his new, planned society being the "remade" world after collapse and drawing from Tolkien's description of the Dagor Dagorath). I have not encountered that specific phrasing outside of Tolkien, though it is entirely possible it exists somewhere and I just don't know if it. I *just* did a presentation on Sauron's utopian plans for remaking "Arda Marred" (in which that phrase and concept plays a role) so coming across this was timely (if disturbing).
Thank you--you could archive the manifesto: it's very easy (and your name is not associated with it): just open https://archive.ph/ and paste in the original URL and click the button, and wait for it to download (often, somebody else has archived it, and it's even easier). Then you get a nice short url to use for citation the does not give clicks/$ to the extremist source!
I think I've read the articles you mention: Moscow, Idaho is my birth town (I escaped from there, and Idaho, in 1975 -- ironically to Bellingham for college! -- which makes the fact that my only tenure-track job offer came from Texas years and years later!). And Doug Wilson is one of the major players in the far right extremist/Christian nationalist effort (Katharine Stewart, the author of the article referenced above, published a book just before Covid, titled The Power Worshippers (https://katherinestewart.me/books/the-power-worshippers/) that is an incredible analysis of the history and development of the current movement and its roots in post Civil War era (and the major role played by the Christian churches that went all out for supporting slavery and white supremacy as God's will). (You may have another "warlord" in mind -- feel free to email me with more specifics if you wish rather than posting openly here!).
Ah thanks I was not familiar with archive.ph and the last time I tried to archive at the internet archive it didn't work for some reason. This is a good new resource to have!
One of my first thoughts after reading about him was to wonder if he might have ties to Doug Wilson (I think we've discussed him before). There is a group that tracks Wilson and his associations that I would like to get in touch with to see if they are aware of any connection.
I have not read The Power Worshipers yet but it is on my list! After some push back in discussion I do wonder if it's too hasty to tie his use of the phrase to Tolkien specifically, but I'd have to think on it/look into it more. I will email you the archive link and the site that got me there.
After bragging the archive up, I found myself struggling with it yesterday right after posting-not sure if it was my internet connectivity, too full a browser cache (I cleared history), or problems at the site or something else. But yes, it's a great resource.
Although that blog keeps enabling me in my e-book buying by featuring incredible articles by people who have published books on the topic . . . . .*martyred sigh*
That was Tolkien Society Birmingham 2019 - I was sitting with you in Marcel's talk so I remember it well!
Thank you! I was fairly sure it was, but do not trust my memory on dates or numbers generally. But I remember how superb a talk he gave, not only for the Tolkien material but for the issue of how great a problem these fake quotes are (although why I should have been surprised at many someones being wrong on the internet, I do not know!).
LOL Robin I read that article, was tripped up by the mis-attribution, and immediately thought of you, and how you've talked about the problem of students (especially) attributing to Tolkien the paraphrases/bastardizations of Jackson et al.!
But it does emphasize how much these "think tanks" are only pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-academic ... not that people on the left can't be as bad, holy moly don't get real historians & academics started about David Graeber ...
It is an ongoing problem (not sure it's more prevalent on the right vs. the left), and yep students, but also I remember a number of periodical reviews about Jackson's films talking about the racism in Tolkien (which isn't exactly wrong, but was based entirely on evidence from the films as if they were some literal version of the book). It is frustrating!
And also yeah, bad/sloppy/lazy scholarship happens on the left as well (had not heard about David Graeber before!).
Robin, I remember it as if it had been yesterday - you coming up to me after the talk in that hotel room in B'ham and asking me when will I publish this because you found it so incredibly interesting.
Thank you very much for sharing this, it gives me great pleasure and makes me a little proud to see my work mentioned with your amazing writings!
Well that reminds me -- are you going to publish? I mean, I was impressed as heck by the series you have on your blog, and more and more I am a fan of publishing scholarly work online for easier access, but it might be nice to pull it all together (you could publish as an article in the Journal of Tolkien Research, rather than as a peer-reviewed piece).
It also makes it easier to attribute and acknowledge the incredible work that people do!
I have written so much stuff in recent years but I have lost all self-confidence in publishing with a decent publication like JTR, for example. I simply do not believe I have it in me right now...
The last few years have been so incredibly hard for so many of us -- taking a break or at least not taking on any more projects can be a good thing! If you ever feel you want to develop something (and JTR not only publishes the peer-reviewed stuff, but also conference presentations and editor-reviewed articles), and I can help in any way, let me know. Until then I'll just keep recommending your work!
Take care!
I recently read the "manifesto" of someone with ties to the Claremont Institute, a man from Indiana who used to own a shampoo company and who has several "compounds" around the US (3 in Moscow, ID, apparently). Both the Guardian and Raw Story have recently published short articles about him. He frames himself as a warlord.
His manifesto (which I won't link to but I can email you the name if you want to pursue an archive link) essentially lays out ideas for a society formed where the current US is after the US has "collapsed" (his call for militarized bunkers and open warfare seems to suggest he and his group are the ones who will be doing the "collapsing"). It includes all the usual suspects: authoritarianism, anti-Enlightenment, anti-equality, strict gender roles, solid hierarchy, a ruling class, capital punishment and corporal punishment, preferential treatment for Christians, etc..
What I found most interesting though and the reason I am mentioning it here is because it also twice draws words or phrases from Tolkien. Once it references the Shire and in another place is a reference to the world being "broken and remade" (referring to his new, planned society being the "remade" world after collapse and drawing from Tolkien's description of the Dagor Dagorath). I have not encountered that specific phrasing outside of Tolkien, though it is entirely possible it exists somewhere and I just don't know if it. I *just* did a presentation on Sauron's utopian plans for remaking "Arda Marred" (in which that phrase and concept plays a role) so coming across this was timely (if disturbing).
Thank you--you could archive the manifesto: it's very easy (and your name is not associated with it): just open https://archive.ph/ and paste in the original URL and click the button, and wait for it to download (often, somebody else has archived it, and it's even easier). Then you get a nice short url to use for citation the does not give clicks/$ to the extremist source!
I think I've read the articles you mention: Moscow, Idaho is my birth town (I escaped from there, and Idaho, in 1975 -- ironically to Bellingham for college! -- which makes the fact that my only tenure-track job offer came from Texas years and years later!). And Doug Wilson is one of the major players in the far right extremist/Christian nationalist effort (Katharine Stewart, the author of the article referenced above, published a book just before Covid, titled The Power Worshippers (https://katherinestewart.me/books/the-power-worshippers/) that is an incredible analysis of the history and development of the current movement and its roots in post Civil War era (and the major role played by the Christian churches that went all out for supporting slavery and white supremacy as God's will). (You may have another "warlord" in mind -- feel free to email me with more specifics if you wish rather than posting openly here!).
Ah thanks I was not familiar with archive.ph and the last time I tried to archive at the internet archive it didn't work for some reason. This is a good new resource to have!
One of my first thoughts after reading about him was to wonder if he might have ties to Doug Wilson (I think we've discussed him before). There is a group that tracks Wilson and his associations that I would like to get in touch with to see if they are aware of any connection.
I have not read The Power Worshipers yet but it is on my list! After some push back in discussion I do wonder if it's too hasty to tie his use of the phrase to Tolkien specifically, but I'd have to think on it/look into it more. I will email you the archive link and the site that got me there.
After bragging the archive up, I found myself struggling with it yesterday right after posting-not sure if it was my internet connectivity, too full a browser cache (I cleared history), or problems at the site or something else. But yes, it's a great resource.
Another book totally relevant to this that I'm just starting: https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9781506482163/Preparing-for-War
Onishi also writes at the Religion Dispatches site that I can highly recommend!
https://religiondispatches.org/
I’ll have to check that book out! I am familiar with religion dispatches though and read them a lot. Good stuff!
Although that blog keeps enabling me in my e-book buying by featuring incredible articles by people who have published books on the topic . . . . .*martyred sigh*